Yes, it does. So what we can do is we can grab this and say this thing, and then we can put them into a group, call it whatever, and then we have this, and you can move the whole thing around. So yeah, we will group things a lot, which is very handy.
I would be surprised, and I'm going to say this and somebody's going to point out a software that doesn't do it, but I would be surprised in any layer-based software that doesn't allow the ability to group, because any subsequent work of significant depth and time is going to get really crazy with the layers, and you've got to be able to group layers.
TL;DRJohn's day job isn't 3D modeling or arranging levels; level designers do the white box and he follows it, since the hybrid teams share skills across disciplines.
Interestingly, this is not John's job. John's job is the 3D modeling and the overseeing of the teams who make the 3D modeling. The arrangement of these things is usually done by a level designer. I wanted a level designer and they weren't interested, so I had to settle for John.
So I would say yes and no to that. I would say that, yes, level design, they do the white box, and then we follow that as best we can. Obviously, some assets are bigger or smaller than you originally think they're going to be, and so what can we do to massage them into place?
I think that the misnomer is that you only do this or they only do that. We make hybrid gameplay teams where it's people of multiple disciplines, and the more each person understands of the other disciplines, even if it's not technically your job, the easier the shorthand becomes, the easier it is to communicate, the easier they can say, oh, like that thing up there. And he goes, yes, I understood why you did that, so I can replicate that here. Which is why John can do a show like this for us when, yes, in all likelihood, it would probably be more appropriate for a level designer to be here.
Not really. I think I am quite happy to let people... I quite like the high level, the how do things come together to become this location. The where's this going to go, how many do we want, who's involved, what kind of resource do we have, how are we splitting up the work. I really enjoy that aspect of it. And you don't really get to do that when you're a mid-level doing the modeling. So in a way, I kind of had to work up to that and then come here. I've been the lead in other places, but here I feel like I'm near the top of my game in being the best lead I can be for the people that I'm working with.
No. So when we were working on the DCs, there is a story behind this. Originally it started in concept art: they kept putting zero threes on everything, a bit of scale, a bit of a number somewhere. That's great. I think it gives a bit more reality to things. But the problem you then encounter when you're actually in development is that every artist then puts a zero three on what they're doing. So you go to a place and all you can see is zero three. Every file name is zero three. Everyone thinks they're being original. They're not. So that's why I opted for, in my first one, zero four. That's actually my favorite number. Not zero four. Four.
Oh, so that would be some sort of... It could be down to a material, or it could be that it's a mesh that's set to transparent, and then therefore you can't shoot through it. We try not to use invisible collision. And I think on some grating... So on this, for example, if the AI is below you, they can't shoot you and you can't shoot it, because the holes are too small. But on, say, a chain-link fence, that's when you might be able to have things pass through, because that's more likely to have bullets passing through it. So it's kind of finding the line of: do we want the people to fight each other through this, or is it just too much of a bad gameplay experience, so therefore we make it so that you cannot?
TL;DRNo date or plan is given for roads linking bases; some Pyro outposts have unreleased roads, while broader linking roads are hard and not a priority.
So that was interesting, doing that at CitizenCon. So not only did we make the biggest sandbox locations we've got in the game, no one cares about that. The roads thing. Yeah, don't know. I'm going to say that to that one, because I actually don't know.
TL;DRNarrative shapes level design when a narrative element is available, such as faction branding and how welcoming or intimidating a location looks, but it isn't always present.
I think it depends on the location. We think about who's going to occupy the space and then how is it going to be branded because of who's going to be occupying it. I think at CitizenCon, Adam did a presentation on Rough and Ready, who had taken over the Pyro space stations. So in a way, all the branding was done to represent Rough and Ready, their look. So there's definitely a which gang will be in here, or who will be in here, and then the branding to reflect that.
Beyond just the branding, the narrative stuff: in about three weeks on ISC, you'll see we're going to introduce you to a whole bunch of the planetside locations that you're going to encounter in the Pyro system. And you'll see immediately that the farms, the scrapyards, the trading posts that are operated by the Citizens for Prosperity are pretty differently dressed than the same type of locations that are owned by the Headhunters gang, for instance. One clearly is more interested in putting forward a good first impression to people, or the best first impression that a harsh place like Pyro will allow them. And the others are just like, nah, we're not interested at all. And then two weeks after that, five weeks from now, you start seeing the Xenothreat locations, the places where they live. They're definitely built to be a little more intimidating. It's like they want just the sight of their place to be fearful. So the answer to that question is yes. Certain narrative elements do come into play. Again, it depends on what's available. There's not always a narrative element available, but when it is available, yes.
So we export things inside of object containers, which is essentially a group that other things can then interpret. So essentially the pivot point is... you have a pivot on a mesh, it's the same principle. So it's where you're going to rotate or transform from.
TL;DRThe main structure of each distribution center looks the same, but surrounding assets, faction branding, lobby design and nearby terrain features make each one look and feel different rather than a copy-paste.
JG
John GriffithsLead Environment Artist, Distribution Centers product owner
So yes and no. So the main form, the main structure, that is going to look the same, but there are feathering assets around each DC to make them all unique, I suppose. Some are going to have quite a large footprint. I mean, it's a big thing on the ground anyway, but there's going to be a bit more of a spread on some of them, and some of them are going to be smaller. But yes, visually they will be different from the exterior so that you do feel like you're going to a different place each time. Also we have factions that own each one, and their branding will be on the building, the name of the place will be different. You'll go into the lobby and that corporate-facing area is going to be branded to that faction. So that'll be quite novel, which would be nice. But they are not just a copy and paste of the same, even though I just said that. They do feel different, I would say, when you're flying to them. And also some of them are, where they are on planets, next to interesting features. So hopefully you'll get a recognition of, 'Oh, this is the place on Stanton 1 because it's next to this lovely sea and the sun never goes down.' 'Oh, I know the one you're talking about. I'll meet you there' type of thing, which will be something that we actually thought about rather than just going one here, one here, one here.
John GriffithsLead Environment Artist, Distribution Centers product owner
So in this initial release, it will just be planets. We've considered having them on moons, but due to time constraints, we won't be releasing initially on moons. This is just because I believe that the wings should be different when you're in an airless atmosphere. The way you're interacting with cargo and moving things around in zero G is going to be different to when you're in gravity. So because we don't have those things yet, we won't be releasing them yet. So for the moment, for this release, planets only.
And when you say planets, I assume that we can take out Crusader and we can take out ArcCorp. Crusader because there is no surface that we can reach, and ArcCorp because it's not made in the same way as Hurston and Microtech. So these are 13 split amongst Hurston and Microtech for 3.23.
JG
John GriffithsLead Environment Artist, Distribution Centers product owner
TL;DRAbandoned or derelict distribution centers are not planned at the moment, but the speakers see no reason they couldn't come in the future and would be surprised if it never happens.
JG
John GriffithsLead Environment Artist, Distribution Centers product owner
Not at the moment, but I think going on the fact that there are rundown or abandoned versions of other locations, there's no reason why we couldn't have versions of the DCs which were in the same category. And then you could have DCs in pirate systems like Pyro, for example, where they are kind of up for, maybe it's a bit of a capture-the-flag type episode on it, but with players. That would be quite cool to have. Who owns this distribution center? Does it change hands a lot? Are you then competing with more established factions in the game? That would be pretty great. But yeah, right now we haven't got plans to do that, but I don't see why we shouldn't do that in the future.
I mean, you're right. We do make abandoned or derelict versions of everything else. These brand new things look cool and then you rough them up and you mess them up and they just seem that much more real. So I would be very surprised if the call isn't made at some point.
JG
John GriffithsLead Environment Artist, Distribution Centers product owner
Yeah, I think in the first release of anything, thinking about Pyro right now, you need an occupied version. And then when you have that, it's kind of like you've done all the setup already. You're just making new overlays, which then dress it in a certain way. So the hardest part is the initial release. But then after that, it's still work to get these things done, but it's not, I suppose, as much work, hopefully. I don't know.
I've seen that when they were making the derelict ships, it's a lot of work to break them up in a way that's not just crap.
JG
John GriffithsLead Environment Artist, Distribution Centers product owner
Yeah, I suppose with ships though, it's different because the ship is formed and they have to unform it. Whereas with us, our base rooms already exist. It's just new dressing on top of them.
TL;DRRoad networks linking distribution centers to nearby outposts aren't planned as such, but the speaker sees no reason roads couldn't come in the future.
JG
John GriffithsLead Environment Artist, Distribution Centers product owner
Yeah, I don't see why not. Well, I mean, who knows? It could be that there's a motorway from one to the next, but I think it depends on what the next location is. If that's a big town or what have you, then maybe you have roads within it, but then it kind of turns into dirt roads and then blends back into the DCs or something like that. It would be cool to have: this is where the DC is, and then five clicks this way there's a small town, five clicks this way it's like an ore depository or something. And then you've got a kind of a link there; you could just spend your time going between the three places, grabbing the cash, as it were. But yeah, I don't see why not in the future to have roads. It was interesting, when I did the presentation at CitizenCon, it got a big woo for roads and I was kind of like, okay, didn't know this was a thing. So I'm looking forward to when people start doing more races and you actually then have to go through, maybe you have to go into the... oh wait, hold on, no, Sam says don't get vehicles in there. So yeah, maybe you can incorporate some DCs into those races and then have fun getting around those corners quickly is all I'm going to say.
It's one of the reasons we replaced the name. We were calling these new underground facilities for a while and it just got confusing. People thought they would replace it. No, we named them because these are in addition.
TL;DRRaids are intended as difficult end-game content, possibly underground at faction-owned distribution centers with rare loot, but they are not planned for 2024 and whether the idea works is an experiment.
JG
John GriffithsLead Environment Artist, Distribution Centers product owner
Great question. Well, what's known is we want them to be the end game. So you've done the story or what have you. You've explored your career as much as you want to. And then you can dip into these end-game missions, as it were. And this is where you're going to find super rare loot or super high-value items. And they're going to take place at DCs which are owned by big corporations or big brands or big factions. And like you said before, they were the new UGFs, underground facilities. And we still have the idea that some of them do go underground, and that's where the raid takes place. So not only do you have to fight your way through the airspace of the DC, then realise it's too hot, so land, get your ground vehicles out and approach on foot, you've got to get into the thing and then down into the raid. So they're going to be difficult. They're going to expect you to be A-game people going in. You have your squad all kitted out. Everyone has a role to play. When the resource network comes online, you're going to have to work strategically, I can't really say long words, to try and get in. Which is going to be great. And then what happens if, when you're in there, reinforcements are getting called in but you've disabled everything, so it's actually even harder for you to get out? We want it to be tough, but we also want you to be rewarded for doing them as well. So that's kind of the general overview that we want. We now have to go and do that.
I want to be real clear. This is not a 2024 thing. Raids are not a 2024 thing. It's not on the calendar for 2024. Don't even ask me beyond that. But as Star Citizen continues to develop, as we continue to harden the systems and it becomes closer and closer to the game that we want it to be, we're going to continuously ask ourselves these MMO-related questions. We don't want every trapping of every MMO that you ever see out there. We're not trying to be every single game that ever was. But there are certain tenets and there are certain tropes, if you will, of an MMO space that interest us, that we like. And I can see us trying a few of them. I mean, organizations are just guilds by another name. So not every MMO trope is bad. Some of them are expected. Some of them are frankly necessary to achieve the experience that we want. Raids will be an interesting experiment for us when that time comes, because we don't have a health bar, a lot of the traditional class systems and stuff like that. So it'll be an interesting experiment when that time comes, and I'm looking forward to us trying it. Will it work? Will it not work? Maybe it's going to be a hover mode. Maybe it's going to be a master mode. You don't know. I like that we try things. But again, that's not a 2024 thing.
JG
John GriffithsLead Environment Artist, Distribution Centers product owner
Yeah, I think additionally to that, I've been harping on about how big these things are on the ground for quite a while, and I just don't think anyone realizes how big they are. So I'm really looking forward to them going out and people going, 'Oh, he was telling the truth this whole time.' But if you think some of the missions that they're going to release with are going to be difficult, then think, okay, so if this is how hard it is now, just think where we can get to when raids come online. And you think it's big on the ground now, just think of the networks you're going to have to go through to conquer these raids. So just bear that in the back of your mind when these do go out.
Okay, so it might differ from company to company, so just bear that one in mind, but generally it's your job to lead the team on what it is you're making, what it is you're creating. You're mentoring artists, you're also recruiting artists, you're looking at the pipeline, things that you could do to improve it, any processes. You've also got to do a bit of, or I think you should do anyway, scheduling. Do we have the right amount of resource to do the thing that we actually want to do? So that's why in every video I've been on, there's been a bit of Excel in there as well. Just can't get away from it. But yeah, you're the one who's holding the banner, as it were, and saying, this is what we're making. Come on, guys, let's do this. And girls or whoever.
And in the industry, so I've done four and a half years in animated film and then the rest is games. So probably about seven or eight. Is that, hold on. So yeah, something like that. Maybe even nine, maybe even nine.
So we're building the world in which you are playing. So if you take out our role, then you'll just be playing in blank space, white or gray, that's it. Our job is to make it so that the world you're in is as seamless as possible. And for me, if anything, we're supporting the gameplay, but it's also our job to try and help you feel like you're in this world. I think anything that potentially breaks the player out of their feeling of that place, we haven't really done our job right. So the longer we can keep you feeling like you're in, well, for us, a sci-fi universe, or for other games, I don't know, a jungle or a lava planet or whatever, keeping the player thinking that they're in this reality, that's my job, yeah, that's pretty cool.
TL;DRConcept artists create ideas and inspiration, technical artists build tools and optimize assets into lower detail versions, and character, prop and environment artists make characters, objects like chairs, and spaces like the studio.
So we have, or let's say in general, you'll have concept artists. So they're primarily a bit of 3D and 2D, painting pictures, let's say. They're coming up with the ideas, creating kind of inspiration for the team to then kind of run with, to follow suit with what you were saying. Technical artists, they're more focused on how we make stuff with the tools we have. So less about making things pretty, more about how can we make this tool easier for more people to use. So I'm probably really simplifying it. Sorry, any technical artists out there.
Yeah, we environment artists do that a bit as well, but essentially it has to be able to run. So that's why we need the level of detail assets. And I think most times they hold up quite well from quite a far distance, but that also means that we can have more stuff loaded in as well at any one point. Yep, so character artists, well, this is just in the art team in general. Name's on the tin, I suppose, so they make characters. Prop artists, again, props. So I'd say maybe this chair would be a prop, whereas the studio would be an environment.
TL;DRMost environment artists work on hard surface structures players walk on or see, while organic artists handle nature, and both must blend rock and metal so the world feels coherent.
So with the hard surface, a lot of our, I would say our environment artists are hard surface artists. And they are creating things like this studio, for example. Walls, floors, anything that the player is kind of walking on or at least can see, that's what they're doing. With organics, yes, they're concerned about nature, so trees, plants, mining things, rocks, whatever. But it's also the job of, I suppose, artists on my team in particular to marry the organic and the hard surface together. So just because you're a hard surface artist, you're focusing on hard surface, you've got to think about how all these elements come together, because if it's just natural rock and then metal, that's going to look a bit weird. Whereas if we think about how it blends in, is there a structure in place, is there a bit of a transition for it, then that's going to be better. And that's keeping more in with what I was saying before about keeping people in the world that you're building.
So in our company we do have several different levels of artists, so we have artists one, two, and three, and then senior one and two. Then you've got leads and principals, and then it's on into assistant art direction, art direction, senior art direction, all that jazz. So when you're starting out in the industry, you're likely to be going into an entry level role. So for us, that's artist one. And after that, it's up to you in a way. It's kind of how much do you want to put in, how much do you want to do it, and how you execute things as well. And then we're here as well, people who are leads and seniors are there to help the lower levels out, because ultimately we want them to grow as well. So everyone moves up the chain together.