You said you started in film animation. The video game industry is notorious for this revolving door, within the industry and into and out of the industry. What was it about video games that brought you here, and what has kept you here so far?

So like probably everybody who works in the games industry, they enjoyed playing video games when they grew up. And I really enjoyed playing video games. And my parents didn't think there was a career in video games. They probably still don't. But what kept me was that, even in film, when I was working in animated film, you can create anything you want within the remit of the project, but then you've got your spare time, you can then create whatever you want if you're not doing that at work. But it doesn't feel like I'm working, because I love what I do. And to be able to create whatever I want, and even just move verts around and stuff like that, it is kind of therapeutic in a way. Now, don't get me wrong. There are days... in games, we're an industry like any other. You have good days and you have bad days. And sometimes you're beating your head against a rock for eight hours and it's horrible. But then, for the most part, I would say for 90% of the time, we're doing things that we all enjoy. And then we can go and play this game after and be like, hey, look, that's the thing I did. Hey, look, mom, get the camera. So that's why I love it. I actually, when I was first looking for a job, I wanted to go into the games industry. But as I said, I couldn't get a job in the games industry off the bat. So I worked in animated film and then came to a point where it was good to just move over into games. And when I got there, it was great. But I think when I got here, CIG was just starting up. So joining at that time, for me, I wouldn't have been able to do that.

How you got to the game industry, you mean?

Yeah, yeah, games industry. Because there's a lot of transferable skills and tools between both things, especially now. So I feel like you can change more frequently.

I did actually have a stint in VR as well. So I took this position because they were offering me a senior role. So I was like, yes, please. I'm not going to get one here. Or rather, it was more, they were rolling the dice at that company on who got senior. And it was just like, I'm being offered it, I'm going. So that was great. So what I was doing was a virtual reality training simulator for emergency services, and it was great managing. So I went on as senior but became lead, and I was managing a small team there. But the reason why I came back to games was because that was very much real world. It had to be realistic, yes, but realistic to the world we live in rather than this universe we're creating. And I just found it a bit boring. And so with the games industry, it's super creative. You're working with, yes, artists, but also designers. And, how about we do it this way, or can we try it like this? And, oh, what if the gravity's turned off, type of thing? You're like, that's really great. And that would not even be an option in that job. So I took a little stint out and I was like, yeah, this isn't for me. Came back.