Star Citizen Live | DefenseCon Showcase: Odin Battlecruiser
The developers walk through the concept Odin battlecruiser: its triple size 12 ballistic turrets, 12-emitter front beam, 20 torpedo tubes, point defenses, hangars, a 6,000 SCU hold, the internal tram, bridge and crew spaces, and 33-person minimum crew. They also cover design inspirations.
So if we're using naval parlance, a battlecruiser is a ship that has the weaponry of a battleship in a cruiser's frame, hence the name. So it has lots of punch (very close to doing blast cannon and punch-above-weight jokes, but I'm not going to do that) and the speed of a cruiser. So sort of the best of both worlds in one big package.
TL;DRThe ship carries a large mix of manned and remote ballistic turrets in sizes 12, 10 and 8 plus two piloted quadruple laser cannons, all weapons built specifically for it rather than generic PU weapons.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
I've got a cheat sheet, because I think the only person who would be able to memorize it off the top of their heads is Lee, and Lee's currently not in the country. Otherwise he would be here and doing this. So, starting from the top, we have two size 12 triple ballistic cannons that are manned turrets.
Well, there's two triples. So the Bengal, the large lower turret on the Bengal that people would have seen in the Squadron videos, that's size 12. So that's got four.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
We have three single size 10 manned turrets. So that is, instead of having dual mounts, it's a single mount. We have eight, once again, size 10 single ballistic cannon remote turrets. We then have... I know, it's still a lot to get through. We have eight size 8 double cannons that are manned, and then there is two quadruple laser cannons that are also piloted. And those are size 8.
No. Think of it more like the one on the bottom of the Bengal, where it's multiple barrels. It's worth noting that the weapons for this ship, just because of the sheer size and scale and complexity of everything to do with it, are all specific. They're not just using our generic PU weapons. All of them are built in and designed to specifically work with each of the turrets. Because you can't just go down to your local shop and pick up a size 12.
TL;DRThe front of the ship is one giant beam weapon made of twelve barrels, plus a large suite of point-defense turrets and flak whose exact number is still debated, grouped in clusters so they're visible.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, we did see it had some pilot weapons. It has a beam weapon of, yes, size... It is the entire front of the ship.
It's a beam weapon with 12 barrels. It's six on each side.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
Yeah, but it does combine to one giant beam. It's a beam on a capital ship of a scale... well, the size of the ship, as a random data point, is over 750 meters, and then we just have a giant beam that is the front of the ship. So... yes. I mean, we can give it a size, but fine. I'll also cover: it has a significant suite of PDTs, flak, and other automated defense systems. There is still hot debate about the specific number of this. It's either going to be 42 plus 1 or 43. We had an interesting problem when we were actually doing the PDT and flak distribution across the ship. Because they were so small, you couldn't actually see them. So what we ended up having to do was make clustered banks of them, just so that they were actually readable on the exterior. And there's just so many, it meant that we had nice little defensive clusters so they could cover each other as well quite nicely.
TL;DRDefenses must be visible so players can tell what to target, since taking down a ship this size means peeling back layers of defenses and subcomponents before boarding or disabling it.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
Well, the reason we need them to be readable on the exterior is because part of the gameplay of tackling a ship of this size is going to be peeling back the layers of defense. You're not just going to rock up with a couple torpedoes and do the job, you're going to have to take out the subcomponents, take out the shield emitters, take out the PDCs and defense before you can even begin dreaming of trying to either board it or disable it. If we just had the tiny little dots distributed everywhere, people would struggle to actually be able to engage with that gameplay. We want people to visually know, without owning the ship, where to target.
For as powerful as this thing is going to be, it still has to be killable. It still has to be assaultable. It's going to end up being its own TSG just attacking one of these.
That can hold approximately... Remember, this is a concept, everybody.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
Yeah. So 40 queued, ready to go, 20 actual tubes, but then you can obviously manually stock them as well. So it's however many you could fit in your hold, theoretically.
TL;DRRetractable weapons aren't a new studio-wide shift and won't be on every ship; a few recent combat ships got them as a deliberate visual choice made early, giving a distinct retracted and combat state.
Yeah, I guess a few of the more recent combat ships have had that sort of visual cue in them. I don't think it's something we're going to do for all ships. It's not like a shift in mentality or anything. It's just a couple of the new ships all felt like it was the right decision to make. I think with the Odin particularly, there was a lot of different references of different contemporary ships that people are familiar with. And one of the things we wanted to do early on was just have things retracted and tucked away.
I think as well, there's two very clear different visual states: when it's retracted and then when it means business. And obviously when it's retracted, you are limiting your defense capabilities, but that's where things like the automatic turrets come in. And then when it's time to party, that's when everything comes out. And with a ship of this size, we could wave it away with lots of 'it makes it more efficient, everything's tucked away, it makes it a little bit more efficient to fly,' but really it was a visual decision that we made early on with the vehicle, when we started having those very early conversations as to what we wanted the core visuals to be. That was one of them.
TL;DRThe image is a cathartic moment meant to show power, one of several pieces that set scene and atmosphere or act as a love letter to concept vehicles rather than just showing ship details.
I remember when I first saw that picture in a meeting, I went straight to Alberto's desk and I was like, can I have that right now? And it's now my desktop background, because it's just so sick. I remember when you first showed it to me, I came over to your desk, and I think you talked about how it was kind of hiding in the asteroid belt and then it would pop out. And we talked a little bit about how in the Arctic you see these really large ships that are icebreaker ships. And it's just insane. That's a great picture for it.
And I think that's one of the core things with the concept art as a whole. There's obviously things that we want to show to really show the details of the ship and what that ship's functionality and loadout and everything else is. But then there's also pieces that we want to do that just set the scene and set the atmosphere, and give an idea of the dream of what we're trying to achieve. So, yes, some of these pieces might be more art pieces than... I remember me and you had a big conversation about this. I'm not going to say it was a heated conversation, because it wasn't, but there's things that we wanted to show that really put this in our universe, and then there's things that we wanted to show that were kind of like a little love letter to concept vehicles as a whole, because this being almost the end of an era with concept vehicles, a lot of work went into it. And from a concept artist point of view, delivering those really cinematic shots at the end of a long period of working on it is kind of part of the payoff.
TL;DRThe image shows Levski, used to convey the ship's scale, and the speakers say key concept art sets the vision and motivates developers even though it can't cover everything or match the engine exactly.
Yeah, this is Levski. It was the best way to communicate the scale of the thing, as the diameter of the hole, I think, is five kilometers, and the length of this ship is 150 meters, so it gives a better idea of what you could see and where, when this will come out.
It is still a big hole. Odin's just a very big ship. I think, to build on what you said about the key art and how it's almost a love letter in some ways to all the insane work that we've seen: from an artist's perspective, the team's grown so much over the last few years, and it's these pieces of concept key art that appear on Google Images, on the YouTube videos where the backers are talking about how excited they are, and even internally, when you're about to start the project and you get presented with 'this is the ship you're going to be making', and you know that's going to be your world for five months, or whatever. It could be months, and in the large ships' cases, even longer. Those moments are what motivates you as a game developer. When you go into that first call with Ben and John and they're like, okay, here's the kickoff for this, this is what it's all about, and you see the pictures and you're like, yeah, we're going to make that. It's so exciting.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
It's about setting the vision. So obviously the concept doesn't cover every single area, but it gives everyone an idea of what the vision is for this vehicle. So when you're making that decision about what do we do with this space, what do we do with this bulkhead, we know what the intention was. So sure, they may not be realistic about everything that will happen in our engine, but it gets across the vision and the narrative of what we want the vehicle's identity to be.
TL;DRThe ship has six small side hangars, three per side, plus one medium hangar, sized by hangar metric rather than specific vehicles, so ships such as Cutlasses can fit.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
Bay-wise, it is six small... metric small, and one medium hangar. And that's to the actual metrics as well. So it's not like the pads are designed for specific vehicles. Anything that's designated for that metric can fit on them.
Because people had seen the three side doors, so they were like, oh, that's going to have some hangars. But what they won't have seen is the larger hangar.
It has been quite interesting to see, because from that early image and the hologram that's been above Area 18, people have been able to make assumptions, but I've seen so many questions about how the hangars work, what they're going to do, and someone's like, has it got fly-through hangars? And I'm sat there like... can't say anything, but this is getting me hyped.
Just an explanation of the position and capabilities of the lower hangar. The medium hangar is quite big. We're talking about 68 meters for 144, relatively in X, Y, and Z, so quite massive.
The really cool thing about the hangar arrangement on this is that they're sort of interconnected, so you can fly in the rear as that ship is flying out.
Well, the whole thing is. The medium's in the middle, and then the six small hangars are arranged three per side, but the whole thing is just open, and then at the back of that there's all the cargo, as well as the conveyor belt up for the torpedoes to get them into the actual torpedo control room.
So we spent quite a lot of time playing with ideas about how the hangar could look and how it could function. And one of the things that we settled on and were really excited about was having this big open expanse where you could have your [...] recall the fighters, they weren't all scrambling to get in these tiny little hangar doors. You could load them up through the rear of the ship, get them back into their ready positions and get out of there quite quickly.
TL;DRThe area is a catwalk beside a rotating conveyor that carries torpedoes from the cargo grid to the torpedo control room, and the ship is multi-crew, with 23 turrets (15 manned, 8 remote) plus other roles.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
Although it looks like it's an entire room, what you're actually seeing there is the walkway that you saw at the top of the hangar. That's the sort of scale we're talking. Like I mentioned, at the bottom of the hangar, there's basically a conveyor belt that connects to the torpedo control at the top. So behind what you're seeing in that image there is the cargo grid, and what you're seeing to the left there, closest to us, is an actual constantly rotating conveyor belt. So if you want to load torpedoes, you take them from the cargo grid and put them on there, and they'll then make their way to the actual torpedo control room where the tube bays actually are, to be taken off and then loaded into the tubes to be fired. So on either side there's a constant rotating thing, so if you need more torpedoes you can just take them straight off the grid, straight onto there, and it goes up to then be manually loaded.
It's definitely a multi-crew ship. If you want this thing to be efficient, then you will need it. Can you do this by yourself? Yes, you'll get a good workout running around the ship.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
You'll get 20 shots out of the torpedo tubes, and that's it, instead of it being ready to go again as soon as it's fired. Because at the end of the day, as long as there's someone there feeding it, it can just keep going.
No, we're terrible at it. We're absolutely atrocious, and we made the damn thing. It was 15 manned and eight remote, and that's just turrets, not to mention all the other things people can do across the ship.
What you can see here as well, in the roof of the hangars, you've got basically what we see as the ATC, effectively. You've got your control room for the hangars and just a great overview of not the battle stations, but everything else.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
It's managing the cargo. It's managing the hangars. It's managing the doors. It's making sure that, oh, you can go into Bay 3, you can go into Bay 7 because there's no one in it. It's away from the battle of the main ship, because their war isn't what's going on outside. It's making sure what's going on inside the ship is working correctly.
TL;DRThe cargo hold holds 6,000 SCU, with an extra 2,000 SCU on an elevator at the back of the medium hangar, and the team says they aimed to make the best possible version of this ship despite compromises.
See, that's the scale, right? We showed that side shot and it looked like it was an entire room. It's not an entire room. It's literally the catwalk that you're seeing on the left and right.
And when we went into this and got the initial brief, it came out that we were doing an Anvil ship, and it's like, yeah, cool. And then we got the brief and it's like, okay, this we can work with. And then through each point of decision we made, we were always looking at it like, this is our ultimate ship for this purpose. This is what I would class as our end game. Obviously, we need to make it. Obviously, we need to deliver it. So there's got to be compromises somewhere. But we did our best to always look at it and think, right, how do we make the best we can? And this is what we tried to do. And when we get into production, we get to see whether or not we can achieve it. But we put a lot of discussions and decisions into trying to get this thing to be something that we can be proud of.
We have a train system that connects the most important parts of the ship to the most remote manned turrets.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
So, similar to the Bengal, realistically, getting around the ship is going to be a huge task. It is an absolutely massive ship, so it has its own train, tram system, whatever specific word you want to use for it, that runs constantly throughout. It's not like the lifts where you press a button, because that's its own thing. Somewhere else there are lifts to get up and down; there's multiple of them. But just because of the sheer size, we had to set up something to get you around. So there are multiple trains running in a constant loop so that people can navigate the ship.
There's areas of the ship as well that we're not quite ready to show yet. So there's the front area that's not quite...
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
Engineering, habitations, the mess area. Because obviously it is designed to be a multi-crew ship, so there is substantial crew quarters and stuff, but obviously, the amount of time it took to even assemble what we have so far was substantial.
Yeah, it's one of the things that, again, we tried to think about when we were making this. We wanted to try and include some areas of the ship that weren't just combat and functionality. We wanted to have some areas that gave the crew some freedom to relax.
And not to focus on it too much, but we wanted to have little areas of the ship where, if you needed to have more private conversations, there were areas that were away from the main thoroughfare that would allow for planning and discussions.
So I thought that since you're driving a destroyer of worlds, you should be able to dispense it democratically or not. But in some ways, you should be able to communicate to your crew what the plan is.
With a ship of this size, it's going to be crewed by a huge group of people. And obviously, people aren't required to be there, because at the end of the day, people are having fun. But it gives orgs and groups a location to meet and gather and discuss what they plan. I think it's safe to say this is an org ship.
TL;DRThe bridge seats the commanding officer in front, a head of security to one side and an XO on the left, and the captain's dome can generate a private space for confidential conversations mid-battle.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
So front and center, obviously, is the commanding officer, captain, owner; it's the person in charge. Off to one side, they have their head of security. So obviously on a ship of this size, someone needs to be in charge of just making sure the inside of the ship is running the way it's meant to be. And to the left side, obviously, there's an XO to take over when the person who owns or commands the ship needs to go off and do something else. In addition to that, there's a cool little feature that we added to the actual commanding officer's dome. So if you need to have private, confidential conversations, just like how in real life you'd have proper meeting rooms for it, the captain has a way to actually generate one themselves on the bridge to have that conversation away from everyone. Well, it's a reflection of those times when John asked me to come into his office and close the door behind me.
The idea was, if you are captain of this vessel and you need to have a very confidential conversation, but you are in the middle of a battlefield, it needs to happen there and then. You need to be able to make that decision, have that conversation and get on with it.
TL;DRThe bare-bones crew is 33, just to man the operator seats without anyone feeding torpedoes, which they compare to a 40-man raid needing specialist roles and a coordinating leader.
How many operator turrets were there? We're talking bare bones, not even working at full efficiency. That's not even saying there's anyone feeding the torpedoes. That's just to man the operator seats. That's the sort of numbers you're talking about.
I feel like when it comes time to balance a ship like this, that's probably the biggest thing. If you can coordinate 33 people together, it's like you deserve to just be, you know, the Norse god of everything.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
It's like whenever you have a large group of people playing games together, there needs to be someone who is doing a little bit less of the interaction, but managing everyone and actually getting them all to coordinate. It's like anyone that's ever done raid leading in any sort of MMO. That person absolutely isn't putting out the highest DPS in the group, but they're taking a step back and watching everyone while doing it.
Yeah, and that's exactly what I was about to reference. It's the 40-man raid experience, but it's you with your org, your friends, going out and having that gameplay for an evening.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle team member
And having your capship to run. And the best part is also, you have different specialities, right? Because you need fighter pilots, then you need turret gunners, then you need engineering, then you need the guys that actually coordinate the entire crew, and probably more than one guy at that point, because it's going to be very difficult.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
Raid leading is a really unique skill. Whenever you play MMOs, there's only ever a handful of people that are even willing to do it. And they choose to do it because they enjoy doing it. But it's a very unique set of subskills. Anyone who is a raid leader or has ever been in a raid will understand just how different it is as a way to play the game.
It's like the epitome of sandbox emergent gameplay, really. It's a role that doesn't necessarily get put in by the game design teams, but it has to exist.
TL;DRThe exterior was inspired by battleships but kept distinct from other sci-fi and WWII or steampunk looks, drawing on modern stealth ships while keeping the old conning tower aesthetic.
So we wanted to convey that this was inspired by a battleship. Sadly, in sci-fi there are other ships inspired by battleships, so we had to differentiate from those and not go into the steampunk or World War II aesthetics. We initially tried to group all the guns in the center, like you would do in World War II, like on the USS Iowa, or a famous Japanese one that comes to mind that I will not mention. Instead, with the fact that they all have to operate in a video game, they don't have the [...], we started spreading them, and that aesthetic would no longer be supported. So we decided to look actually at the Zumwalt class, at the littoral combat ships from the US, at the Visby class from Sweden, all the more modern stealth ships, and yet retain the conning tower aesthetic that there was in WWII ships and that got lost after them. We want to hint at that world with a little bit of new.
So let's take a look at the actual concept model now. Some folks have already extracted the concept mesh from the hologram, as they do, but this is the actual legitimate one.
Yeah, and just a note on that hologram mesh. Optimized isn't the correct term. It is a reduced version of what we're seeing here. When Alberto handed this over, this thing sat at 37 million polygons. That's not something we can just put in a game. So there were a lot of decisions made to just strip out a lot of that stuff to get it to run above Area 18. And also, it was a hologram. It wasn't supposed to be a concept. This is the real deal.
When the laser beam activates, these side pieces that were not in the hologram model will open up. They are part of the laser beam, in order to become part of the target. Ideally, they are the radiators of the laser beam itself.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
With something so massive, we need justification for why it doesn't just overheat. In addition, it adds a targetable aspect to the actual laser beam, because obviously once you start peeling back the defenses, it gives a nice area to target to try and knock that out, because I imagine if you're targeting the ship, you're going to want to knock the beam out.
TL;DRThe ship has a docking collar and walkable exterior walkways, enclosed behind grated mesh so players are exposed to the elements but shielded from debris and stray shots, needed for repairs and as alternate routes.
So it does have a docking collar. And then also, it's kind of hard to see, but we added some exterior walkways and channels that you could walk through.
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
Oh my god, the sense of scale. So when Lee was trying to sort the navigation for the ship, we didn't want it to be too simplified. We want people to be able to go onto the actual exterior, but at the same time, we didn't want loads of issues with the grids and the physics issues that we sometimes encounter. So we ended up trenching all of the exterior walkways, basically behind mesh. But it's grated mesh, so you'll still be exposed to the elements, but you don't have to worry about debris or stray shots hitting you. But it meant that we had, to be blunt, an entire level's worth of navigation for the designer who primarily did a lot of the layout for the floor, Lee.
So you're going to be walking around the exterior of this?
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Cloud ImperiumVehicle/Ship Designer
Well, you've got to, because just to maintain some of it, you're going to have to go out and do a lot of the repairs. And there's alternate routes for when the power goes down on the inside, like the staircase on the conning tower. And obviously, it's a full staircase, so you get some sort of idea of just the scale of it. The first time I saw that, I immediately thought of the Midgar tower in Final Fantasy 7, when you have the choice to either run up the giant staircase or go up the lift.
All right, so you've got the Carrack, made by Anvil. Nice little brand carryover here. So you've got the shielded conning tower. One assumes you don't go blind when you close it?
Yeah, I mean, it's on the top of every contemporary ship. Inside here, there is your parliament, so there's quite a nice callback to the circular motif of Anvil.
Just because of the sheer volume of the ship, we couldn't really just have tiny little pods, so they have entire rafts, and they're scattered throughout the entire ship. The ones on the conning tower are the most visible, because we didn't want to fully embed them, just because we would have had to increase the size of the conning tower even more. So obviously, if somehow someone manages to peel back a million layers of defense and you need to escape, there's plenty of rafts.
So you have, obviously, your two foyer entrances for the docking collars. You have your very front manned turret. You have the underside manned turret. And then you have the two manned turrets at the back. And they also put you next to the main elevator thoroughfare.
This is the lift that you can see here, this opening on the left. So the cargo hold, directly behind, is the 6,000 SCU. That is the lift that connects to the medium hangar, and that's 2,000 SCU. To the left and right hand side are the catwalks that take you to the small hangars. So if we just spin round... So there's the metro stop for the actual trains. So obviously it's mirrored on both sides of the hangar, because it might be quicker to get the train around; we're not 100% sure yet.
It depends how many stops we end up with. At the minute, we're looking at about six, but more might be added as we evolve the other spaces inside of it.
Well, one would assume that through engineering, if you're really fighting for power, you could draw power away. The tram stops working, you need that power somewhere else, and you still need to be able to get around on foot.